Didn't we just do this last week?

[perpend]

[It's starting to look like this is going to be a weekly occurrence.

Just like last week, Cabanela waits a while before he makes his rounds, writing everyone quick notes and sliding them under each occupied door.]

Stay strong.
If you don't want to be alone tonight, meet in the dining hall.
-Cabanela

[Like last week, Cabanela hasn't bothered to provide anyone with food-- that would just be... rude right now, he thinks. Upon first entering, you'll notice that there are now four lit candles in the center of one of the tables.

Feel free to leave mementos for the dead; it's probably appreciated.]

Comments

[crimsonchin]

I suppose that's true enough.

Ah, speaking of proof, about that raven thing I was telling you about...it's basically a paradox that has to do with evidence. It goes kinda like this.

So let's say I tell you that "all ravens are black." Sounds reasonable enough, right? But if we were to look at that statement strictly through a logical lens, the equivalent is me saying "everything that isn't black isn't a raven". And you can't disprove that, either, can you? Not with logic alone, anyway. Try to imagine a world where something isn't black but is also a raven; in that world, you can't say all ravens are black. So the two statements are always equivalent, never contrary to each other.

Now, you'd back up the first statement by saying something like, "Diablo, my pet raven, is black". So that supports the theory that all ravens are black. It'd be a weak argument, but, let's say it holds up. But to back up the second statement...that's where things get a little more tricky.

So let's say you see this stone mask of yours somewhere, right? You can say, "this gray (and therefore not black) thing is a mask (and therefore not a raven)." By the same reasoning you used before, you'd say that supports the theory that everything that isn't black isn't a raven. But since, if you say that, you say that all ravens are black...well, the point I'm trying to make is that you're arguing that seeing a brown mask is supporting that all ravens are black.

And it fucking works.

[midnightsea]

So in short, it warns against generalization and assuming things as fact with a narrow frame of reference, correct? Fascinating--that sounds like something I'd have read about before. It must not have been written yet.

[nope]

But do you think it really applies in this situation? Unlike your ravens, we have a much smaller sample size to examine to prove or disprove the existence of a double agent. And I am not making the argument that 'because I'm not working for the Conductor, one of you must be'. What I am saying is 'if one's stupid enough, working for the Conductor would easily be seen as a valid choice'.

[crimsonchin]

That's true. There's something called the Devil's Proof, too, that goes hand-in-hand with Hempel's Raven. That one's not as complicated to understand; all it says is that while evidence proves the existence of something, a lack of evidence doesn't disprove something. It's kind of like what you're saying. That just because we don't have evidence of a mole doesn't mean there isn't one, or that one doesn't exist.

It...more or less comes down to how you think of the group as a whole.

[midnightsea]

It's nothing to do with the group specifically. Humans as a whole have limitations in form and function. Even the most courageous among them fear mortality on some deeply instinctual, primal level. The entire species scrapes and claws for their own survival just like any other animal.

What I mean to say is that even if they'd condemn the idea openly, nearly anyone would make a deal with the devil if it would save their own short life.

[crimsonchin]

Just like Faustus, then...Ask the Inspector to lend that one to you when he's finished with it, if you're unfamiliar.

[ This was truly shaping up to an interesting discussion. ]

So, Herr Vampir. Does that mean you're not like that, then? Do you not have to worry about fearing death now, because you're no longer a human? What happens when you catch a glimpse of something silver? Or garlic?

[midnightsea]

Solamen miseris socios habuisse doloris. I saw Goethe's performed at the Lyceum in 1887, though I think I preferred Marlowe's version.

[...Boy, was it ever. Literature and philosopy, possibly two of his favorite things to think about.]

Silver and garlic? Don't be so absurd. Superstitions and nonsense--I'm not so easy to kill. And even if I were, I wouldn't go around telling people how to do it.

[crimsonchin]

No kidding?! That must have been incredible...

[ Asuka is...actually pretty damn jealous. ]

You should read Mann's version, too! It's an interesting interpretation, if a bit more modern. It's after your time, though, because it was published in the 1940s...it's a product of its time, though, because there's a pretty clear post-World War II Germany theme throughout.

So that stuff about not being able to enter a place without being invited in is nonsense too, I assume?

[midnightsea]

It was admittedly a worthwhile use of an evening, yes. But I'll have to keep that in mind--I suspect immortality must get terribly dull without something worth reading every few decades.

[someone stop this pretentious shit]

There's no way that applies either, it's ridiculous. If something like a doorway could stop me, what would be the point of superhuman abilities in the first place?

[crimsonchin]

I assume it's because people feel the need to put some kind of absurd limiter on supernatural creatures. It might just be something a parent would tell their child so they can sleep without fear...

Something...bugs me about that, though. If you're truly immortal...well, that's just rigging the Conductor's little game, isn't it?

[midnightsea]

...I said it wasn't easy to kill me. 'Impossible' was not part of that sentence at any point.

[Because as much as he wanted to think otherwise, Dio's scattered memories knew he had come damn close to it somehow. The scar around his neck was proof enough of that.]

Besides that, I doubt I'm even at my full potential here. I should be able to make short work of that steel door in the foyer, and yet you may note it remains in one piece. Whatever the Conductor and his likely associates are, they've taken more than just material items and memories.

[crimsonchin]

I wonder what kind of situations you managed to get yourself into, back when you were at full strength...

To think we're dealing with such powerful adversaries isn't exactly the most reassuring thing in the world, though.

[midnightsea]

At this point even I'm not sure. But I know what I should be capable of, enough to compare it to what I can do now. The two don't match up at all.

[Damn amnesia.]

I don't care for the idea either. But physical strength is far from the only thing that decides the victor in a fight.

[crimsonchin]

It'd be nice if we knew more about our adversaries, though. ...And ourselves, for that matter, considering this damn memory loss.

[midnightsea]

So either we wait for our memories to come back before we make a move against him, or we wait for someone else to be stupid enough to commit murder. That much all depends on which option actively triggers unlocking our lost memories--if it's simply time alone, or if it's something the Conductor manages to control as well.

[crimsonchin]

I suppose there's only one way to find out, isn't there? We just have to wait and see what happens.